HomeMy WebLinkAbout04/08/2002 Regular
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VERBA TIM TRANSCRIPT OF THE SPECIAL PUBLIC
MEETING OF THE SPRINGFIELD CITY COUNCIL
HELD ON MONDAY, APRIL 8, 2002
The Springfield City Council met in a Special Public Meeting on Monday, April 8, 2002 at Springfield
City Hall, 225 Fifth Street, Springfield, Council Meeting Room, at 7:04 p.m., with Mayor Leiken
, presiding.
ATTENDANCE
Present were Mayor Leiken, and Councilors Fitch, Hatfield, Lundberg, Ralston and Simmons. Councilor
Ballew was absent (excused). Also present were City Manager Mike Kelly, Assistant City Manager Gino
Grimaldi, City Attomey Joe Leahy, City Recorder Kim Krebs, Planning Secretary Brenda Jones, and
members of staff.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Mayor Leiken led the Pledge of Allegiance.
1. Public Meeting to Accept Testimony Concerning the City's Two Flood Plains
Mr. Mott:
Good evening Councilors, Mr. Mayor. Council is right now in the midst of a series of work sessions
which have been designated as educational and informational- information gathering sessions regarding
the issues of the city's flood plains and flood planning and development policies. At the first of these
meetings in this series, we had the Willamette Area Operations Manager from the Army Corps of
Engineers dam projects tell us about the timing of dam construction and the effect ofthe dams on the
McKenzie and Willamette river flows. He provided information, for instance, that the 100 year flood
flows on the McKenzie River have been greatly reduced by construction of the Blue River and Cougar
Dams, such that the current 100 year flows predicted at the Vida river gauge are significantly lower than
flows which were experienced there in the historic floods of 1943 and 1964.
We've had the State of Oregon Flood Plain Program Manager at our next meeting to discuss current state
and federal flood plain regulations and programs and some of the alternative methods of flood plain
development regulation being used or considered by other governmental agencies in Oregon to decrease
the risk of flood plain - the risks involved with flood plain development and/or increased environmental
protection of flood plain regulation.
We've had the Oregon Flood Program representative from the Federal Emergency Management Agency at
the next meeting, who provided background information about the development of the flood plain maps
near Springfield and reviewed some of the potential reasons for updating the current maps. In addition,
staff has provided council with a great deal of information regarding the land inventory affected by the
flood plain, a discussion of the issues regarding maintenance or lack thereof of existing revetments along
the McKenzie River - environmental issues - discussed a number of studies currently ongoing or
proposed on the Willamette and McKenzie Rivers and we discussed liability issues regarding the
regulation and approval of development in flood hazard areas.
Tonight the council is taking the opportunity to hear what the citizens and property owners in Springfield
have to say about the flood plain and flood plain development so they can make decisions based on all
viewpoints and facts available to them.
Mayor Leiken:
First of all, as your Mayor and as the representatives here tonight - as your councilors, we just want to say
thank you for being here tonight. We felt it was very, very important that we hear from many of you _
which it looks like we are going to - and we look forward to that. As you come forward to testify before
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Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting - April 8, 2002
Verbatim Transcript - Page - 2
us, you will not be hearing a council response right away. If council desires, at the end, then we will
respond at that time, or we may not. And - depending on how the evening goes. It's not because - if we
decide not to, it's not because we don't obviously care, it's because we probably wanUo take in as much
of this as we possibly can before moving on to our decisions.
The way the proceedings are going to go tonight - we're going to first of all, have Eric Gossler and Brian
Pifer from the Thurston Rural Neighborhood Association speak. They've been allocated ten minutes and
because they are speaking for the association is one of the reasons why. And, as we move on tonight,
normally what we ask you to do, is state your name and address, limit your comments to three minutes or
less - we're going to hold that as close as we can, but it's important that we hear from you and so
probably what I'm going to do, is allow maybe, you know, to go beyond that if possible, but try to hold it,
if you can, close to three minutes as possible to allow as many folks to testify tonight as will be allowed
and as we can possibly hear.
But I just want to say this much too, is that when we hear this tonight, we're all in this together. We're all
residents. From those folks in the Thurston Rural Neighborhood Association we've heard from you
before and appreciate that much, but Councilor Hatfield, of course, lives near most of you, as well as the
other councilors here tonight. We're your neighbors and we're citizens of this fine community we live in.
And so, tonight is just your night. And it's your night to speak before us, and so what I'll probably do as
we move on, I'll state whomever is going to be coming to speak before us, and then I guess I'll go to my
old baseball days and we'll go on deck and in the hole. So, and go that route.
If you hear something and I'm hoping that you won't erupt in applause, hopefully you know, keep that in
as much as possible, and wait for either a good Eugene Ems game or possibly for the Ducks' football
game, because I'm sure there will be plenty of applause when we go back to the Rose Bowl. So, without
further adieu - oh, and one last thing I do want to say, is that Cynthia Pappas has a note pad - I think it's
back by the door - okay - alrighty - thank you. Without further adieu, at this time I will call Eric Gossler.
I think he's coming up first before us and then followed by Brian Pifer representing the Thurston Rural
Neighborhood Association and you've been allocated ten minutes.
1. Eric Gossler:
Thank you. I'd like to start by thanking the council for conducting this meeting and for conducting the
work sessions that have taken place over the last month: We feel- the neighborhood association - we feel
a little bit - a little bit of the genesis of this whole process and this whole meeting. We started with this
years ago, and we've been working with it for - intensely over the last three or four years within our area.
I'd like to start, if! could, by entering the booklet that you all received last week, into the record and want
to make sure that that's part of the ongoing record for the proceedings.
We want to make sure whatever is done tonight- not necessarily tonight- but whatever is done regarding
the flood plain is done right. We've been dancing with the city on this issue for over 25 years. We've
worked on a number of areas within our small part of the community. We've worked with numerous
councils over the years and it's gotten more intense as time has gone on, because we are getting more and
more critical into some of the areas that we're wanting to develop.
The decisions that lie ahead of you - what I think is somewhat getting lost, at least in the last year, with
our discussions and meetings that we've had - the decisions that lie ahead of you, I think we're losing the
fact that this is long term. We aren't deciding whether it's going to flood next year, we aren't deciding
whether the flood plain is going to be in that place in five years or ten years. Once this infrastructure goes
in, roads, sewers, detention ponds, houses - everything that goes along with them - once it goes in, it's
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Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting - April 8, 2002
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there forever. Or at least as near as we can get to it. So, whatever policies that you're going to be
deciding on, and decisions that you're going to be making over the next year or multiple years, keep in '
mind that this is forever, and it doesn't just affect city residents - it affects county residents.
I'd like to turn at this point and discuss a couple of the issues that are important to us that I think we
haven't talked about too much. First I'd like to start with the bank protection projects. The bank
protection projects in our area are helping hold the river where it is. They went in, mostly in the 50's and
60's and have stood for fifty years. The city has made it clear through discussions on other subjects over
the last couple of months, that they're going to have a hands-off policy relating to these strictures. That's
fine. But if we're going to continue to develop within flood plains, the city needs to not look at these
structures and turn a blind eye. You can't have it both ways. Either the city needs to be ready to look at
the river as a hazard, or not develop within these areas.
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The pictures that you see - mainly there's some pictures on page - I believe it's 34 of the handout that you
have - the pictures that you see are the 1940's. Those were not 100 year floods. Those are the pictures
that are the most available, but they were not 100 year floods. Those pictures were taken before those
bank control projects went in. The reason those bank control projects were put in by the Corps of
Engineers was to stop those floods. Almost all of the bank control projects on the section of river
immediately adjacent to the city of Springfield are failing. They've reached their life span which is
projected at fifty years. They are now failing. The one on our property is failing. And I'm sure most of
you are aware of the one that was up near Cedar Flats that catastrophically failed this winter. As these
continue to fail, the river is going to continue to migrate to the south, which is where the city lies and
where these Urban Growth Boundary Flood Plain Transition Areas occur. So, these pictures that you see
of the 40's, they may not be 100 year events on the flood maps, but as the river moves back to the south,
we're going to be able to replace those pictures as time goes on.
The next area I'd like to speak to briefly in the cumulative effect ofthe flood plain within our area. We've
been handling for the last 30 years at least in our particular area - when I'm talking about this, I'm talking
about the Thurston area - we've been handling this as a piecemeal project. Every little project goes in-
basically the feeling between the planning staff and the city has been that this is a small project - it's not
affecting you that much, why are you worried about it - in a nutshell. We've been doing this for thirty
years. These small projects add up, one after another after another, and eventually they are making a
difference. With the changes in the river and the increased amount offill that's going in, I think the level
of predictability of what's going to happen in our area drops. And we're getting to the point now - is that
three minutes or is that - five - okay.
I'll pick up the pace here a little bit. I want to speak a little bit about the Public Facilities Plan and the
Metro Plan. The Public Facilities plan and the Metro Plan list one project as Gossler bank control project.
I have not been able to get a definition of that, I've not been able to get an idea of what that is. It's 1.5
million dollars is what's budgeted to go in. It's on the schedule within the next eight to ten years. I
haven't been able to get an answer to what it is. My only assumption is that (inaudible) the river. Well,
the City's made it clear that they don't want to address the river and that they don't want to address the
revetments. At the same time, the city wants to continue to build in the flood plain in our area. You can't
have it both ways. If the city is going to have a hands-off policy on the river, that's fme, but you can't
continue to develop in these questionable area.
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To conclude, before I hand off to Brian, I want to emphasize again, that we've been working on this
project with the council and we've been working with all of you for an awful long time. The
neighborhood association went into effect originally to address this very issue. It wasn't to address
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Springfield City Council
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Verbatim Transcript - Page - 4
anything else other than it was put in to ta:lk about flood plain in our area. Also, I'd like to emphasize
again, and make it as clear as possible, that whatever decisions you make are long term. Because I think
we have lost that in this whole process. We've gotten to where we're thinking next year, what if a flood
happens, in two years, what if it happens in five years. The river's going to move, the people are going to
move, that infrastructure isn't. So, whatever happens, is there. With that, I'd like to hand off to Brian Pifer
and let him discuss some other points. Thank you for your time.
2. Brian Pifer:
I'd like to recognize my neighbors in rural Thurston who find this flood plain development an issue fairly
critical and want to come in tonight so I'd like them to raise their hands just to see the number of people
that we're talking about that feel this issue is of pretty big importance. Quickly, my name is Brian Pifer, I
live at 1453 66th Street in Springfield. Tonight I come to you in praise of your recent efforts to obtain vita:l
information regarding the city of Springfield's flood plain. Specifically, I hope you were able to spend
some time with the document included within your workbooks entitled "Thurston Flood Plain Analysis."
As you are well aware, the citizens of rural Thurston for many years have asked the city to address
flooding issues and the risks imposed that did not coincide with FEMA drawn maps or urban growth
boundaries.
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The Thurston Flood Plain Analysis draws from several commissioned City of Springfield studies
researching the possibility of flood plain mapping irregularities affecting the basin's ability to handle
storm water runoff. The citizens of rural Thurston hope the subsequent flood plain work sessions,
Thurston Flood Plain Analysis document, and verbal testimony from two FEMA representatives will
finally drive home the need for a more accurate and comprehensive flood plain development strategy.
First and foremost is the current inaccuracies of the FEMA firm mapping and its ability to predict 100 year
flood elevations. In pictures that you have seen before, and are included within the Thurston Flood Plain
Analysis, flooding at the 66th Street Thurston Road intersection in 1943 was evident with peak flows on
the McKenzie River near Vida around 48,000 cubic feet per second.
In 1964, with Cougar Dam on board, the peak flows near Vida registered 57,000. Blue River Dam came
on board in 1968 with the ability to control 9 percent ofthe watershed drainage and 11 percent of the
average river flow. If one does the math, Blue River Dam may have been able to control the peak flow at
Vida in 1964 to a smaller number, near 51,000 CFS. This quote-unquote modern day 100 year flood of
'64 still produced a higher peak flow near Vida than the pictures of the smaller 1943 flood event that
spilled water down Thurston Road.
It is crucial for the future of flood plain development and management that an accurate and updated 100
year flood plain map be created. Until this action is taken, the ability to make sound land use decisions
with regard to flood plain is impossible. But is this practical or financially sensible, when a more
conservative flood plain boundary could both protect citizens from high velocity flood water and allow
affective use of flood plains to absorb naturally occurring flood events.
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The neighbors of rural Thurston consistently report the increased number of flood events in relation to the
minor weather storm patterns. Never has such little rain caused flood events to occur within pastures and
flood ways seen today as compared to historical events. It is clearly evident the effects of increased storm
water runoff and urban development are having on Cedar Creek to absorb and discharge runoff into the
McKenzie River. Commissioned studies from Brown and Caldwell in 1979, Chem2Hill in 1984 both
stated the inability of Cedar Creek to handle additiona:l storm water runoff. Even the recent
Eugene/Springfield Public Facilities Plan of 2000 states the inability of Cedar Creek to handle a 2 year
runoff event. Even more disturbing is the statement in the Public Facilities Plan regarding the present
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Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting - April 8, 2002
Verbatim Transcript - Page - 5
water quality condition of Cedar Creek and its inability to meet federal clean water standards.
It is our hope that through the efforts of Rural Thurston and the FEMA representative Joe Weber, that the
council now understands why the EGR study was inaccurate in depicting flood elevations during the Levi
land mediated settlement and how its results were not to set a precedent for surrounding subdivision
approval. Some rural Thurston neighbors have a strong concern for the amount of money set aside within
the Public Facilities Plan for capital improvements within the rural Thurston area. Table 18 on page 102
of the Eugene/Springfield Public Facilities Plan lists several capital improvement projects totaling nearly
5.5 million dollars. Some of these projects are slated to be completed by 2004, while others not until
2010. Where are the funds coming to complete these projects and what are the scope of these projects?
When and where will the public be involved in addressing each anticipated project? These are very
logical questions in regard to future flood plain protection and/or development.
In closing, I ask you, the city council, what's the alternative? Certainly the situation has consumed many
long hours of city staff time and tapped into valuable stretched resources within the City's budget. Some
alternative solutions I suggest may be 1) to utilize land located in the fringe areas of the UGB and/or city
limits to decrease the discharge or backwater of storm water runoff into a failing Cedar Creek system; 2)
maybe incorporate these areas into natural biological solutions to aid Cedar Creek's improvement in
regard to meeting the federal Clean Water Act; 3) potential to improve city's need for parks and open
space; finally, the McKenzie River will reclaim old flood channels during the future flood events. While
this may be only temporary, if we do not acknowledge this danger and react appropriately, the community
at a whole is put at risk.
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The city should be thoughtful, concerted, and prudent at this point. When is enough enough? We feel that
development impacts on the flood plain have already gone beyond an acceptable level in our
neighborhood. The city has a responsibility to address these impacts before it considers any new ones.
Thank you.
Mayor Leiken:
Next we have Tom Costabile. On deck is Chris Pryor. Please state your name and address for the record.
3. Tom Costabile:
Good evening Mayor Leiken, City Councilors. My name is Thomas Costabile. I am the Senior Vice
President of Operations at Sony Disk Manufacturing. My office address is 123 International Way,
Springfield, Oregon. I'm here tonight to share my experiences regarding flood plain issues with the City
Council.
I request that the City Council proceed with caution regarding the addition of significant restrictions on
economic development within the 100 year flood plain. I'll limit my comments to our experience with the
McKenzie River and the flood plains where we, as all of you know, have brought significant investments
quite successfully. In fact, the only problem that we've had with the investment was due to somebody
altering a riverbank unbeknownst to us and the entire City staff.
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The restrictions we believe that we understand are being considered - we believe will cause - we believe
that they will dramatically undermine Springfield's ability to continue attract quality businesses to our
community while producing little to no real benefit. Why do I say this? Well, Sony came here in 1994 - I
was one of the four decision makers and recommended proceeding with the Gateway site knowing the full
ramifications of purchasing property both in a flood plain and a flood way. We are proud to have been a
primary catalyst for developing our economic base here in Springfield. We continue to be proud of that.
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Over the last several years, businesses such as Federal Express, Sherwood Packaging and Symantec have
also decided to locate in the Gateway area. Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on which view you
take, there is room for more economic growth to occur in the Gateway area; however, some ofthis land is
within a flood plain. As you know, the development within a flood plain is controlled by building codes
to minimize the adverse impact from events which are expected to occur only once in every 100 years.
Banning or placing additiona:l restrictions on development within such areas will not significantly protect
lives of properties, but it will hinder the ability oflocal companies to provide wage jobs to families.
We believe that the City of Springfield development staff - I have my own caveat - one ofthe best staffs
I've worked with in 20-plus years of developing properties around the world has the right ba:lance with the
code. There are issues that, as a responsible developer, that you need to follow. The bottom line that we
feel you should be aware of is that there is a limit to our economic viability with severe restrictions.
Each of us, every day, takes a risk. Whether it's choosing to cross a street or drive a car. In making those
choices, we balance the risks encountered with the expected benefit. The present policies allow for
properly controlled development within areas not likely to be flooded more than 100 years. And I believe
that's what we're addressing tonight is flood plain issues. When we look at the restrictions in the
development that have been properly planned and put in place, it works effectively. It's that proper
attention to detail under the guidance of our City staff, which I am thankful for, that I believe needs to be .
considered. I thank you for your time this evening for me to address the issues with us as it relates to our
property in the Springfield and the Gateway area. I've also provided a copy of to the record.
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Mayor Leiken:
Thank you. Next we have Chris Pryor. On deck - and ifI butcher names tonight, I apologize in advance
- on deck we have Anna Puustinen Westerholm. Hopefully I got that. Go ahead Chris.
4. Chris Pryor:
Thank you Mayor Leiken and City Council. My name is Chris Pryor. I'm speaking to you tonight as the
Chair of the Springfield Chamber of Commerce Legislative Affairs Committee. I'm the designated hitter,
so to speak.
The Legislative Affairs committee has considered the flood plain discussion and the need to develop
standards and new maps around the flood plain issue. And I'm not here tonight to ta:lk about the technical
or the social or even the environmental aspects of what the final product needs to be, because there are
probably people here who are far more qualified to talk about that, and the Chamber really doesn't want to
weigh in on the technical aspects of this particular issue. But we do very much want to weigh in on a
process - the procedural aspect of it. And that is that you are currently in a between point. You have
current standards in place, and you are striving to develop new standards and as you proceed between
those two points, what is the process that you should follow? And in order to produce a thoughtful
answer, you need to take the time necessary to do that.
And so what the Chamber of Commerce Legislative Affairs Committee is here tonight to do, through me,
is to propose to you - and I'll read the exact wording of what the committee is proposing - that the
Chamber of Commerce encourages the Springfield City Council to apply current land use standards to
development applications in that interim until the new flood plain study is finished by City staff and new
standards are adopted by the City.
. What that means is wherever it is that you wind up as a final destination will be useful and no doubt be
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important. What is important to the Chamber of Commerce is that you not pinch hit on your way to get
there, but that you utilize existing standards and maps that have been in place - have been developed
through another further thoughtful process - and that whatever you come up with, that be the point at
which you switch over to new, and not try to create some sort of half-way in between animal that is part
information, part perception, part adaptation - that you continue with the existing standards until new
standards are in place. Thank you very much.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you. Next we have Anna Puustinen-Westerholm. On deck is Olee Lovdokken. Hopefully I said
that right.
5. Anna Puustinen-Westerholm:
Anna Puustinen-Westerholm. 3564 Hayden Bridge Road, Springfield. And, as you guard my maps so
well, I need to point our very briefly things on them. May I come around? (Miscellaneous unsubstantive
comments). I owe you -let me know later. Entertaining you now, trust me. Okay, I brought in three
maps. Each of these shows a different time frame - pardon me, not used to this. And I brought them in
because my current concern at 35th and Hayden Bridge Road area, is that people have not understood the
FEMA misdesignation of what it is. According to Lane County and Springfield and engineering firms, the
flood way is this visual area going across the Mohawk is up here - this is the McKenzie. My small farm
remnant of a farm that stretched to the river, four generations, I am now on six acres at Little Pine.
During the floods, if a person only accesses the FEMA map and any of the maps here or the 1968 map,
you will see a visual and fall into an erroneous conclusion. If you walk the land - if anybody who had
gone with me understood what they were seeing, they would have started the corrections in 1996, after
that flood because over here where the Terry Henderson property does not show, there was a mass of
water - pardon me, don't stumble - I don't want you to be hurt - this again is the tongue ofland - this is
Hayden Bridge Road - this is the Henderson property - this is my little farm - and we in the
neighborhood gathered and saved as much as we could of his portable plants. Digging was out of the
question. But, if one follows the read line, sloppily drawn, and looks under the canopy of the trees, what
you have is land fill on this property put in the flood way - because the FEMA map said that was a
secondary - that was a secondary area. It is not. The FEMA map designated this blue for cooling. It is
not the flood way.
So looking at this from the 1996 time frame, looking at old (inaudible), you will very quickly (inaudible)
understand in that area what has occurred. My concern is that fill permits, housing, extensions, will
quietly creep forward until that designation is erased. Lastly, (inaudible) made a design out of rocks in
what I call the (inaudible). This goes back to my indigenous background. (Inaudible).
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you. Next we have Olee Lovdokken. Hopefully I said that right. Okay. On deck we have Richard
Alexander.
6. Olee Lovdokken:
Thank you for this opportunity. I'm basically just an observer, but I think I've made some observations
that might be of help. I live at 2889 Hayden Bridge Road on the south side of Hayden Bridge. My house
is built. And it was built in 1998 - I mean 1992 and the front foundation was built exactly on the flood
plain by the maps. So our floor of our house is one foot above the flood plain. And when the flood came
in 1963 - 1966 - I had a front window view of the flood and I saw it coming in. And one thing I - have a
question that always comes up to my mind since we've been talking all of this - is the part that the
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Springfield City Council
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Verbatim Transcript - Page - 8
Mohawk plays in if they come to a crest at the same time as the McKenzie, you're going to have a
different flood plain below the Mohawk than you would iftheycrested before or after. And that can make
a lot of difference for where I live further on down the line.
I know that the water came in and it held and so the my neighbors - with a certain amount of knowledge,
estimated that the water crested at about six feet below than the 100 year flood plain. And so while I was
encouraged to evacuate, I would not take that opportunity and as it was, it never even came close. But
anyhow, Ijust wanted to pass on that in that particular small section of where I live, that the flood plain
didn't even come close to meeting the 100 year flood. Thank you.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you. Next we have Richard Alexander. And periodically I'll just remind folks to state your name
and address for the record. On deck we have Larry Brabham.
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7. Richard Alexander:
Richard Alexander's my name. I'm a former resident. I now live up in Washington, but my family's
property was right here. We had a store here on Main Street and we lived over the hill on South 2nd Street,
so we had a very good view of the flood events on the Willamette. And I remember - I thought it was
back in 50 - 1949 or '50 that the flood came through there and knocked all the trees down - took out a
motel over there and moved a large barn down against the railroad bridge, and moved the railroad bridge
about three inches or four inches down - offset the tracks. And I had the good fortune of having
Pneumonia at that time and I got to lay there in bed and listen to the trains go down all night across the
river in what is now Wildish country. And when it floods around here, it really floods. And that's the
only thing I want to say. I have (inaudible) land up on the hill- the South 2nd Street hill. But I'm sure
there's no flood that's going to get that. So thank you.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you. Next we have Larry Brabham. Dave Jewett on deck.
8. Larry Brabham:
My name's Larry Brabham. I wanted to thank the Mayor and the council for bringing this meeting
together because I think it's probably long overdue really. My family has owned a property on Deadmond
Ferry Road for over 110 years. So we have a pretty extensive background there. The house I live in now
was built in about 1910, 1914. It never got water in it. But yet if you look at the elevations of where I am
and say Sony is, you wouldn't understand that.
Part of the problem with development in our area, including engineering of streets, including Sony's
design to a point, was that you decide to take the flood channels that were existing and plug them up
basically. If you walk down International Way from the Beltline area on through, you will see those areas.
International Way is probably elevated three or five feet above the natural terrain. And that natural terrain
was the flood channel.
So if you had a flood like we had - the biggest one I can remember is 1945, and that was a very nasty
flood in our area -and if we had that now, Sony would be completely inundated because the area of Game
Farm Road and Deadmond Ferry intersection right there, is probably three or four feet deep with water. It
took out the railroad tracks by Demmor Village. It was really pretty nasty.
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You can drive down Game Farm Road, the east edge of it - you can look at the depth there, that's a
natural channel and the Springfield Utility Board has put a substation right on the edge of that channel.
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Verbatim Transcript - Page - 9
Not a wise decision. The area where Sacred Heart is going, years ago if you look back, was owned by a
family named Conley - it was called Conley's Blossom Farm. After '45, they grew - I should explain-
they grew Daffodils and Tulips for bulbs and shipped the bulbs. After 1945, we had their whole bulb
supply on our property. It was great. I still have Daffodils and Tulips coming up off - just no-man's land.
So if you look at the river in that area - and I don't know anything about Thurston - but I do know the
area I live in - the river makes an "S" turn. It heads west, it goes north, turns and goes west again. And
when it gets out of its banks, the "S" turn IS gone. It just cuts right across. And that's why the area along
the edge of Game Farm Road, the that cuts past the Game Farm Deadmond Ferry, for it to run on down-
if that was to happen right now, it'd hit the area on International way - it's dammed up about four or five
feet - all it could do is to start backing up.
Is my time up? Okay, so I would like to see, in closing that the City - whatever they do - I think the flood
plain is outdated because we have dams. And we haven't had a flood like the '45 since then. But I think
we should concentrate on keeping the flood channels available. If you want to put in a street, put it in.
But don't elevate it. Keep it at the natural terrain - as close as you can. Because that way, it's going to
keep from backing the water up: And any fills or any elevations like that is going to cause problems.
Thank you.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you Larry. Next we have Dave Jewett. Ralph Wheeler on deck.
9. Dave Jewett:
Thank you Mr. Mayor and councilors. My name's Dave Jewett and you can ordinarily find me at 1011
Harlow Road. It's pretty clear when you look around the room tonight that there is a room full of people
of differing opinions, different perspectives, and different experiences.
In recent years, people in the metro area have come to see Springfield's annexation and development
process to be one that's grounded in thoughtful deliberation and consistent application of applicable
standards. The need for that approach is probably the most significant when you face an issue of
community-wide concern and one in which there is some controversy and differing opinions. It's at those
time that the community's, the council's, the staffs commitment to a thoughtful approach with consistent
application of adopted standards is put to the test the most. It's easy to apply consistent standards when
there's no controversy. It's only tough when there's controversy. That's the time when you're tested, and
the flood plain issue - just look around - is clearly one of those times.
In fact, there are standards that govern annexation and development of the areas within the flood plain that
are in place in Springfield today. Annexation standards are set in the development code in Article 6. They
say that the City is to adopt or to analyze the situation to see whether the minimum of key urban services
are available to the property that annexation is proposed for. It refers to the Metro Plan to determine what
the minimum level of key urban services are. The Metro Plan describes as the minimum level services:
sewer, water, power, solid waste disposal, fire and emergency services, parks, schools, communication
facilities and storm water services. There's not mention of flood plain issues at all. It's not there.
Storm water service - and depending on which version of the Metro Plan you're looking at - the
definition is slightly different, but it's mentioned in one way or another in both documents - the one that
existed at the time of the adoption of the annexation standard in Article 6 and the one that's been revised
and adopted more recently last December - but they're both somewhat similar.
And the City sets in Article 32 of the development code some standards related to storm water service.
For small sites, less than five acres, it says stormwater service is measured by looking at a two to five year
.
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Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting - April 8, 2002
Verbatim Transcript - Page - 10
storm. For medium sized sites, that's less than twenty-five acres, it sets that stormwater service is
measured by looking at a twenty-five year storm. Only in sites larger than that does it even mention the
possibility oflooking at larger storm events.
In addition to that, Article 27 of the City's development code specifically adopts development standards
for residential and commercial development within the flood plain. That's what Article 27 is all about. It
specifically prohibits the consideration of anecdotal evidence, such as historical data, high water marks,
photographs of past flood events as long as base flood elevation information is available either in
insurance study maps or from other authoritative sources such as engineering studies.
Mayor Leiken:
You're about 3 minutes, thirty seconds, Dave.
DaveJewitt:
Well, I'm about done. And I guess the point I'm trying to make is that ad hoc consideration of differing
circumstances based on the expressed communication or concern of the minute does no characterize
Springfield decision making. Springfield decision making is based on, and has been based on, the adopted
standards. There's been careful deliberation and adoption of those standards in the past, and those are the
ones that should be looked to for utilization until new standards or differing standards are adopted. Thank
you.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you David. Next we have Ralph Wheeler and Bonnie Ullman on deck.
10. Ralph Wheeler:
Good evening. My name's Ralph Wheeler and my wife and I own a parcel ofland at 3840 Hayden Bridge
Road and we had the dubious honor of being the upstream property below Hayden Bridge where the water
first took off across the fields and inundated in 1996. I gave you a small map and shows our back parcel is
zoned farm and is about an acre and a half in size and the flood plain backed up to a point that filled it
diagonally about fifty percent and I wish everyone could see it but I'm sure we're on those maps.
Anyway, subsequent to that time, we drew permits from Lane County and began an aggressive program of
filling the lower part ofthat parcel. We put in approximately 3,000 yards or 300 dump truck loads of fill
in that property. Mind you, it's an acre and a half in size. We brought it up substantially to abate flooding
on that parcel. It no longer conforms with the 1985 FEMA maps - these guys - because ofthat elevation
difference and specifically - mostly I wanted to talk about the zoning of that parcel.
We have the dubious honor of also owning probably the most expensive piece of farm zoned land in Lane
County that was assessed at over $60,000 for an acre and a half. I don't know how many farmers have
that kind of property that they pay taxes on, but we do and it does not have a farm deferral on it. So, what
I'm asking is that when you get your accurate information and new elevations on the parcels, a lot of the
zoning in the area of the Urban Growth Boundary also borders that property on two sides, I also ask that
you review the zoning of these parcels too, because these maps and the Urban Growth Boundary maps ran
hand-in-hand when they set the zonings for the parcel. That piece hasn't been farmed in ten years and I
would venture that it won't ever be farmed again because of its size. We were there and we saw the flood
water too and I'm sure Mr. Henderson can tell you all about it as well. Thank you.
Mayor Leiken:
Councilor Hatfield has a question.
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Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting - April 8, 2002
Verbatim Transcript - Page - 11
Councilor Hatfield:
I just have a question. Looking at your map. If your tax lot that you're referring to is number 103...
Ralph Wheeler:
That's correct.
Councilor Hatfield:
Is that outside the Urban Growth Boundary at this time?
Ralph Wheeler:
Yes it is.
Councilor Hatfield:
Then it's not our jurisdiction.
Ralph Wheeler:
I understand that but I would like it to be your jurisdiction. You missed the point.
Councilor Hatfield:
Thank you.
Ralph Wheeler:
Thank you.
Mayor Leiken:
Next we have Bonnie Ullman and Phil Farrington on deck.
11. Bonnie Ullman:
(Written Testimony Submitted) Bonnie Ullman, 3350 Oriole Street, Springfield. And I've submitted
written testimony to you guys, but there are just too many points I wanted to make. And one of them is
that if we fill in a couple hundred acres that things are going to change. Where is the water going to go?
And I would like you to think about the people that already live there in considering how much you fill in
the flood way and the flood way fringe.
And the second thing that I want to say is if you fill it to put a hospital in a safe place, but it's the only
hospital left in town, that's n9t the safest place to put it probably is in a flood way. But I provided written
testimony too. Thanks very much.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you Bonnie. Next we have Phil Farrington and Richard, oh boy, Atansio on deck. I probably
absolutely destroyed that and I apologize in advance. Go ahead Phil.
12. Phillip Farrington:
Hi. I'm Phillip Farrington. I'm the Director of Land Use Planning and Development for Peace Health.
I'd like to make four points to you tonight just for - as a matter of observation and suggestions. One is
just to recognize the value of existing improvements that have been made in the community. For example,
the revetment in the Gateway area has been in place for some 70 plus years and protects life, property,
development potential and significant public investments that the City has made in recent years to
encourage development within that area.
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Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting - April 8, 2002
Verbatim Transcript - Page - 12
The City should consider the hundreds of acres that are within the Gateway area's 100-year flood plain
that are designated and zoned for campus industrial use as well as MDR use, and its importance to the
metropolitan area's economy. If the City were to consider revisions to existing flood plain policies, it
should consider making a distinction related to instituting greater protection for flood plains that have not
been armored.
Second, if the council does elect to make changes to existing policies and development procedures, they
should do so very cautiously. The City has recently approved development proposals within the flood
plain and the Gateway area and should be cautious not to differentially treat property owners either by
land use designation or by when they happen to submit development proposals.
And while some communities in Oregon have adopted more stringent flood plain regulations, many of
these are reconsidering or modifying these standards due to impacts on development, unwieldy review
(inaudible) administrative processes and other unintended and unforeseen consequences.
Thirdly, I'd just urge you to stick with the regulations the City currently has in place. Article 27 of the
Springfield code serves its intended purpose of protecting life and property from hazards and potentially
flood prone areas. The City is also wisely pursuing code revisions to the cluster subdivision ordinance
that will provide design flexibility for development which can be used in conjunction with Article 27
standards to mitigate potential effects from development.
.
It should be made clear also that Article 27 does not give developers Carte Blanche allowance to build
within a flood plain. Structures must be elevated above base flood elevations, must not negatively impact
downstream properties.
And finally, for Peace Health, we're undertaking an intensive flood plain analysis, more than any other
property owner in the community has conducted. And from what we learn from that study, we may have
to incorporate mitigations into the ultimate site design in order to protect on site adjacent development.
Our development proposal will seek to incorporate extensive enhancement of the currently armored banks,
riparian fringe. The design will seek to incorporate significant vegetation. It will leave generous open
space in the flood way and elsewhere on the site to minimize potential impacts.
We look forward to working with City staff, elected officials, appointed officials in the community, and
the community at large in our Master Plan review process. ' We urge the City to stand by its existing
effective flood plain policies and not make dramatic changes in the middle (inaudible). Thank you.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you. Richard, I'll just let you stay here (inaudible).
.
13. Richard Attanasio:
Thank you. It's Richard Attanasio. I'm a Senior Water Resource Engineer with David Evans and
Associates in Portland. 2828 Southwest Corbitt in Portland. I'm here representing Peace Health. I
designed the proposed flood plain study for the Peace Health Gateway site and I believe that this study
will accurately determine flood plain elevations within the Gateway area and also determine any up or
downstream impacts or lack of impacts above and below to the site due to development. And if we need
to allowances on any mitigations we need to mitigate those impacts.
Secondly, I'd like to speak briefly to the Portland area's experience with the newer flood plain regulations,
specifically, off shoots of Metro's Title 3 Model Ordinance. I believe that the impacts ofthis have been
greater than they originally anticipated. Those ordinances allow buffering of intermittent streams of any
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Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting - April 8, 2002
Verbatim Transcript - Page - 13
size, springs, seeps, pocket wetlands. I believe these impacts have gone beyond economically and from a
land use point, what they originally were intended to do. The cost of administering these has gone - has
become very high. They're very difficult to interpret. And I respectfully advise you if you do change
your flood plain ordinance please be very careful with the wording, particularly the definitions. It's the
weakest part of these. Thank you very much.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you. Next we have Anne Heinsoo. Mike Whitney on deck.
14. Anne Heinsoo:
My name is Anne Heinsoo. I live at 35 Lorie Court which is an arm of Wayside Loop. Just a block away,
as the crow flies, from an elbow of the McKenzie River. Perhaps three blocks south of the area being
staked out by Peace Health for an immense hospital development. I very clearly recall standing on that
river's elbow in 1996 and thinking two or three inches higher and it's over the bank. We were officially
warned to be ready to leave our homes at a moment's notice. Our suitcase was in the car's trunk and all of
our garage storage was moved up off the floor. We were fortunate. The river chose other areas farther to
the east to go over its banks that time around. The river - well- some were unfortunate. The river elbow
we stood on at the north end of Manor Drive appears to us to be higher than the banks to the north where
Peace Health plans to do its development.
.
I am not an expert on water flows, flood plain boundaries and all the scientific facts and figures that should
be considered here, but I saw with my own eyes what the McKenzie River can do when the conditions add
up to too much water needing to be channeled somewhere and existing channels just can't do the job. The
word, as we all know it, is flood. All lands next to the river need to know this and developed or not
developed accordingly. Please don't let the supposed economic advantages of Peace Health's presence
prevent you from considering thoroughly the scientific data which must be dealt with here before
development of any kind is allowed. To begin with, there must be an update redefining of the boundaries
of the 100 year flood plain. Clearly incorrect as it is now drawn. Thank you.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you very much. Just a message from our City Recorder, just when you come speak, make sure we
speak into the microphone and also reminding me to make sure we state our name and address for the
record, so.
15. Michael Whitney:
My name is Michael Whitney - 1415 66th Street in rural Thurston. I'm just a pretty unsophisticated, not
very bright, rural dweller who happens to live on the edge of the Urban Growth Boundary. And I don't
get it. For 30 years, we have been telling you that the maps showing the flood plain are wrong. You have
heard from people who have stood in water during floods and ignored them. You have ignored photos.
You've ignored newspaper articles including photos, and you've broken promises to the Thurston
Neighborhood Association. You have ordered and spent thousands of dollars on studies and then ignored
them. What part of this don't you understand, or what part of this don't I understand.
.
For 30 years we have heard engineering is engineering, and you have chosen to believe that instead of
anecdotal information that has been provided. Now you have heard from the FEMA representative that
the engineering is wrong, because the information provided by the Federal government had been wrong
that the engineering was based on. And I think you must realize that if you continue to build dwellings on
flood plains when you don't have to, that you have some liability. I'd like to know what you're going to
do about it.
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Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting - April 8, 2002
Verbatim Transcript - Page - 14
Cedar Creek is full ofE-Coli. There has been flooding from increased pressure, of building and pouring
the storm water into Cedar Creek, and I'd like some answers. Why don't we take a look at alternative uses
for the property in the Urban Growth Boundary, not inside the city, such as using it to pre-treat storm
water run-off, rather than to continue to annex property and build houses, and what you now have to
realize, based on the anecdotal information, which at this time is probably your best information, is in a
flood plain.
It seems to me that continuing to annex property in a flood plain, and putting houses on it is nothing but
the full employment act for engineers, lawyers, and risk management people. If we have in fact missed
something all these years, I'd like an explanation of what it is. Thank you very much.
16. Jerry Ritter:
Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, thank you very much. My name is Jerry Ritter, I live at 1865
Yolanda Avenue, in the north UGB. I don't know much about the Peace Health location but I can tell you
what happened back in February '96 in our area, which is between Harlow Road and about North 35th. At
the base of Harlow Road where it almost intersects Dellrose, there's a hill that goes down toward the boat
ramp. Most of you probably know where that is. At the base of that hill there is a yellow warning sign at
the stop intersection, up above by Dellrose.
During that February evening in '96, all you could see was the top half of that sign, because those whole
fields in back of Dellrose and around that area were under 8-10 feet of water and it was lapping at the base
of the hill in the back yards of the folks who live on Dellrose. Everybody was out with sand bags, some
were out with boats. We were sitting there watching appliances and mattresses float by and hoping like
hell the rain would stop. Fortunately it did, and once it did the water started receding. But I got a really
good scare that night. And the members of our neighborhood organization who live mostly in that area
also got a really good scare. And we can tell you that any development that's allowed in that area cannot
possibly be good policy. And that's all I wanted to let you know. Thank you.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you. Next we have Terry Henderson. George Grier on deck.
17. Terry Henderson:
Terry Henderson, 3820 Hayden Bridge Road. I came down here mostly to - not knowing what this was
going to be about, wondering what you were going to do - knowing that every time I seem to get involved
with any of these issues, I get screwed in the whole deal. Last time I went - yeah - yeah, my brother's the
one that fought the gravel company. Last time I was in one ofthese meetings, the bike path along the river
- which was a fiasco. That ought to fit pretty well with the flood plain. I was just curious to know what
you'd come up with. And it's hard to ask any questions when I don't know what you're proposing to do.
So, I take the risk to live by the river. I got my feet wet. I lost one appliance. That's the risk you take.
I'm not crying to FEMA or anybody else to bail me out. As far as I'm concerned, the flood plain's fine
wherever it's at. Thank you.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you. Next we have George Grier. Steve Moe on deck.
18. George Grier:
Is it possible to play this video for you?
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Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting - April 8, 2002
Verbatim Transcript - Page - 15
Mayor Leiken:
How long is it?
George Grier:
The video is about five minutes. I can cut it down, or I can make it available to people. But the gist of
this is that you folks have had a lot of information here. You've had an engineering analysis. I think
before a final decision is made - my name is George Grier, I live at 1342 Y2 66th Street. One ofthe factors
of the economic impacts is going to be dealing with the Endangered SpeCies Act. And the scientific
community has not been heard from and this is a tape that Stan Gregory recorded for the McKenzie
Watershed Council after the 1996 flood event, specifically about the McKenzie flood plain. And I think
it's something that you would all benefit from listening to because it shows what you're going to have to
deal with in the outfall of the Endangered Species Act. And if you'd like me to accelerate it I can do that.
If you'd like me to make that available to you, I can do that as well.
Mayor Leiken:
What I'd like is if you can make it available to us, and as we have a - and believe me - the decisions
aren't being made tonight -we're going to have further work sessions on this. What we'd like to have
then is availability ofthe tape during a work session. Our next work session on - when we come to the -
go over the flood plain issues. If you'd like to enter - go ahead and enter that I guess into the record
tonight - somehow somebody will enter that. That'd be my preference.
.
George Grier:
I appreciate that. I think that part of the equation needs to be considered and - because I think that the
impacts of the Endangered Species Act are significant and if the community can bypass that, then our
economic growth can continue, but our economic growth is going to be a function of compliance with the
Endangered Species Act, and how quickly we can get compliance with that.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you. Next we have Steve Moe. And Fred Starkey on deck.
19. Steve Moe:
I'm going to pass these photos around. These are Glenwood but in the background is west and north
Springfield and the flood of' 49. I thought you might find it interesting to look at. Steve Moe, P.O. Box
847 Springfield. In the 1930's, the US Congress authorized the US Army Corps of Engineers to study the
Willamette River Valley and determine if flood control was feasible. Two criteria were used in this study.
One was that the cost of flood control be paid by the savings of less property damage. The other criteria
was that the project put people to work. It was the depression in those days. The flood control project was
authorized between 1940 and 1965. The flood control dams that we know of today were constructed.
They have had the impact of smoothing out water flow so we don't have the major floods of the pre-dam
days. We still have minor floods.
What amazes me is that in this year of 2002 in the computer power and stream flow modeling available,
we still can't produce an accurate flood plain map. It's time to pull out the old aerial photos of our post-
dam floods and determine where the real flood limits really are. I've yet to see two computer-generated
flood maps that agree with each other. The FEMA maps are worthless.
.
Another facet of the Corps of Engineers flood control was the implementation and use of river bank
stabilization. This is why you see miles riff raff lining areas of river banks. This method has been used
extensively, not only in urban areas, but rural areas, as it was thought it would protect the farmland from
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Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting - April 8, 2002
Verbatim Transcript - Page - 16
channel changes and the erosion of farmland. That thinking is now changing. Protection of natural
resources and animal species is becoming the number one priority. Letting the river flow naturally is the
philosophy. There will be no more river bank protection. This is going to have, over time, a big impact
on the Willamette River Valley.
What I want to speak about is the effect of letting the river - excuse me - what I want to speak about is the
effect of letting the river flow natural within the urban areas. Oregon Senate Bill 1100 of the 1970's places
a priority on concentrated urban development. Springfield is developing within an approved Urban
Boundary and in or next to our Urban Growth Boundary flows two rivers. I feel that our citizens and our
city have a major investment in infrastructure and development that has been brought to the edge and
sometimes within the river areas. That development took place at a time when it was implied that the
Corps of Engineers would protect us from encroachment of the river, allowing the river to meander
naturally, and it's already trying to do that in the Thurston area, will eventually create millions of dollars
of damages by putting the protection of the river and the species (inaudible) of the establishment of a
protective flood way.
I think the control of development in the flood plain is justified. I also think that beyond these designated
areas, and I'm talking about within the Urban Growth area, the public should be protected from the river.
In conclusion, I want to encourage the Council to establish a final flood plain map, protection of the
waterway and species, but also provide protection ofthe public when the river tries to move beyond those
boundaries. After all, we are a species too.
.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you. Next we have Fred Starkey. Larry Reed on deck.
20. Fred Starkey:
Well I was voted to represent my neighborhood. Will my neighborhood stand up? These are all my
neighbors. I'm Fred Starkey. I live at 3842 Hayden Bridge Road. And being a market analyst for 20-plus
years, I'm just going attack this from an economic standpoint. Having lived here almost 20 years, I've
seen more economic disasters than I've ever seen in my life. You ought to read "The Broken Window" by
Bastion. '
We all know that more buildings, more fill, more dirt, all this other stuff, raising everything up is going to
increase, you know, less run off. It's going to back everything up and make it worse. We all know this,
it's already happening on the hill behind us, the water's coming down and it's already building up and it's
percolating out of the asphalt. We already know this. We know from the other side ofthe mountain the
water's going to come off faster because of the foliage. Larry, my next door neighbor testifies in Seattle.
They had all this government planning. They were going to do this and next thing you know the town's
under water. Isn't that right? You ought to talk to Larry about that. I'm surprised at some of the things
that happen here. Who's - here's the question - if there's a disaster, who's going to bear the risk? The
City? No. The State? No. The citizens are going to pay for it.
I've taken the risk building my house -like Terry's take his risk building theirs - we're willing to accept
that risk. You're then saying you want to shift more risk but you don't want to pay for it. I love this
developer guy. There's risk. Really? I've been in the risk business for years. If you want to shift that risk
on me, if you want to build, you pay for it. If I want to come over and use your bathroom, should I just
use it for free, or should I have to pay for it. It's the most ridiculous thing.
. I love this government planning. Really. You're really great at forecasting. Yeah, let's just have a review
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Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting - April 8, 2002
Verbatim Transcript - Page - l7
here. Did you know (inaudible) interest rates were (inaudible) percent in 1980. Did they forward contract
and mortgage rates then when they took out the hills in Thurston? No. That debt - when I went in Mr.
Kelly's - $30 million. That money would be $100 million now. It's gone to prolong the depression.
Really. Willamalane - the guy had a budget under $1 million - went over $12 million. Did he set any
money aside for the roof? None. That cost you another $20 million. The guy's real sharp. You're
talking about government planning. The Springfield School District - their (inaudible) didn't match it on
the other side, they get a $30 million deficit. Did they forward contract that? No, they're going to try to
pass a bond measure on you so they can make that up. Talk about irresponsibility. Lane County's short
$43 million on the same thing. Government planning? You know, you'd have be, pardon me, incredibly
naive to believe the government planning works.
We heard a citizen come up here and tell you you ought to get rid of all the engineering reports and talk to
the citizens on all the anecdotal information. That's right. I was down there, it came right up to my fence.
That's my problem though. I decided to build there. That's my risk. If somebody puts more fill behind
us, that's more risk on me. Is that right? Is that fair? Didn't we say the Pledge of Allegiance? Is that
equality and fairness? No. These other citizens don't want the risk shift off on them. Their homes are in
danger.' Their lives are in danger. That's wrong. If there's any question about it being right or wrong.
It's wrong. You can't shift risk. If the developer wants to develop, he can pay for it. Then I can go to
sleep at night knowing that if a flood does happen, I'm going to get compensated. Build all you want.
And then you can pay for it and pay the insurance. Then everybody can go to sleep at night.
.
Long term safety and security of home and living. That's what people want. Like one man said, it's
going to be here forever. We want to feel safe and secure. I lived in Sacramento. I came out of there,
why? Because they took every piece of land and built, built, built, built, built. You Walt to build, move
to another town and build a monorail. Okay? That's the way to go. You're doing this wrong. Too many
people in too much space creates crime and problems. That's what you're creating. I've seen the same
thing happen here that happened there and it destroyed everything. Now everybody wants out of the
,place. It's a zoo.
You've got a beautiful, you've got a lot of great people. What you need to do is provide opportunities for
these people. Family wage jobs? What's family wage job? Put a number on it. $30 thousand, two weeks
of vacation and a pension. That's a family wage job. Is that a family wage job over at Wallmart? Is that
what they pay? That's a family wage job? That's not a family wage job. It's ridiculous. Okay?
Now. I'd like to discuss any ofthese points. I've challenged the school board to debates. They don't want
to talk to me. We had it out in the annexation meeting. Mr. Kelley said we wouldn't be annexed. We had
it out there and nobody beat me there either. Okay? I think there's a lot of sharp citizens in here and I
want to pay my respects to Ms. - Little Pine - down the street. I don't know here name, but she knows
what she's talking about. And so does Jerry Ritter. So think about it.
And if you need "The Broken Window," I'd be happy to give you a lesson on it. Because that's an
economics question that nobody knows the answer to. And what I just told you - you guys are down, oh
$200 million in this town - bye. And it's like, what happened, okay? Let's not blow another $200
million. Let's not ruin these folks' homes. I wish I had more time.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you. I appreciate the folks from Sacramento moving to Oregon. Next up we have Larry Reed. On
deck we have Brenda Leavitt.
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Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting - April 8, 2002
Verbatim Transcript - Page - 18
21. Larry Reed:
That's a hard act to follow. I'm not quite the comedian. My name is Larry Reed and I represent Arlie &
Company. And our address is 722 Country Club Road, Eugene, Oregon. Arlie & Company owns land in
the International Way, Deadmond Ferry and Baldy View Lane portion of the city and my comments are
only in relationship to that area. We own 12 acres along the north side of International Way just opposite
of Sony. We also ownl2 acres south ofDeadmond Ferry that fronts along the northern end of Baldy
View.
We have really two issues with the City process tonight, meaning this public hearing tonight. First of is,
what I believe, at least my perception is, that the wording ofthe notice, based upon the wording of the
notice, that it appears the City Council may have already made up its collective mind about changing the
rules - I hope I'm wrong - and are looking for anecdotal testimony to kind of justifY the change.
Second is, that I believe it to be a flawed process. I believe that City changes in policy and development
standards should be based upon science and good engineering principles and the facts that's found through
those studies. Not somebody's recollection, experience, or opinion. Setting up a process claiming to
evaluate the effects of existing policy on vacant land doesn't appear to be a good way of changing the
rules and regulations. Both Arlie's parcel- both of our parcels are totally outside the river's flood way-
that's the area of the fast moving water; however, we do have portions of those two within the 500 year
and the 100 year flood plain. And currently City regulations allow us to develop our land as long as the
buildings' first floor is constructed one foot above the 100 year flood plain. And Arlie has purchased both
of the properties in reliance ofthose current regulations.
Arlie staff and City staff, during our River Bend discussions identified the following facts, and it has to do
with that "S" bend that Mr. Larry Brabham talked about. The first fact is that the grading of the river falls
to the northwest. The second fact was that prior to the construction of the upstream dams and the flood
control measures, the armor and the revetment, the flood water took shortcuts toward the northeast. And
these flood meander shortcuts, as previously stated, flow to the northwest, and there's approximately, oh
within about a half mile, or maybe a little longer, about eight feet of fall across that property. South of
Arlie's' property, the construction of the riff-raffrevetment along the west bank has cut off these flood
cutoff channels, and since the construction of that revetment, there's been no change in the river's west
side or west bank. And this was verified by a study done by Poage Engineering dated December 31, 2001.
And I'll be wrapping up in just a couple of quick more minutes or less. And I'd like for the staff to bring
forward that study, which Peace Health is now taking forward with a more complete study and enter that
into your record about the lack of change for this river bend and the "S" part of the river.
Both the City of Springfield and the private land owners in this area, has relied on these flood control
measures and made substantial improvement. The city has improved, thousands of dollars, International
Way, Deadmond Ferry Road, installed sanitary roads, water mains, electrical substations, and Sony has
previously testified, has invested millions of dollars in building a building and manufacturing equipment.
Symantec has spent millions on new buildings.
The storm water that flows - that flowed northwest up Baldy View that Sony representative talked about,
was really caused by an 18 inch lowering of that revetment that allowed the flood waters to flow up Baldy
View into the parking lot. And I guess what I'm saying is, and I agree with the representative from the
Planning Commission, Moe, that the City has a responsibility to help protect the area from flooding along
the river and maybe some liability where there's been considerable public and private investment.
We've seen pictures of it, on TV, of the areas of the county, where the flood way has gotten behind the
revetments, destroying valuable cropland. It would be a sad day to see Arlie & Company's proposed new
.
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Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting - April 8, 2002
Verbatim Transcript - Page - 19
office building or Sony's manufacturing plant being reclaimed by the river because the City has made
blanket changes in policy and flood plain regulations based upon anecdotal information. I encourage you
to stop making decisions based upon anecdotal information and testimony that may be driven by other
political motives such as rare plants and other kinds. Please make decisions based upon good science.
Thank you.
Mayor Leiken:
Next we have Brenda Leavitt. Jim Wilson on deck.
22. Brenda Leavitt:
Brenda Leavitt, 1458 6~ Street. And I had a short video to play, which speaks for itself.
Mayor Leiken:
Actually, we'll do the same thing. We'll ask you if you'd like to enter it into the record and we would like
to show it at a future work session that we have with the flood plain issue.
Brenda Leavitt:
Well, I don't like that answer, but I'll say okay.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you. Is that all? Did you want to - is that it. Okay. Thank you. Makes up for the other two
minutes of over I think. Next we have Jan Wilson. Mike Schmidt on deck.
23. Jan Wilson:
Jan Wilson, 1260 President, Eugene. I have a couple of handouts for you. There are two photos - aerial
photos - one 1951, one 1968. They are of the Peace Health site. I don't want you to attribute any ulterior
motives, only Eugene aerial photos are on the Web, so I had to get as close as I could to Eugene to get to
one that I could print on my computer for you.
You can see significant changes in that channel. There's an island there that wasn't there fifteen,
seventeen years earlier. There's of course a big interchange. There' other changes. Pretty major. I
wanted to show you just how much the river can change in a very short period oftime, how seventeen
years can make a huge difference. And I want to respond to Dave Jewitt and Larry Reed who
demonstrated incredible disrespect for the citizens here. The annexation criteria includes minimal level of
key urban surfaces which include emergency services. And I think emergency services covers floods. I
think emergency services would certainly cover a hospital in a flood plain.
I think developers will be long gone when the City is sued by homeowners whose houses were allowed to
be built despite mere anecdotal evidence. Don't discount the data. Anecdotal evidence is data upon which
the scientific opinions are formed, so I think the citizens have come here with good anecdotal information
and you need to be aware of that and you need to take it into due consideration.
There are three sources of uncertainty, at least. There's probably more, but three that I could quickly
identify. First is the uncontrolled, i.e.; below the dams' watershed. Most of our significant flooding-
flood events happen when you get a rain on snow event. If that snow happens to be at lower elevation
below, if it's not in the Blue River drainage or the South Fork drainage so that you - there are dozens of
creeks that run directly into the McKenzie that aren't controlled by those dams - that's where your snow is
when you get your warm rains - your rain on snow event is going to be much more significant and so,
again, don't discount the fact. I have a handout here - this is USGS - shows just how much is and is not
covered by the dams.
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Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting -,.- April 8, 2002
Verbatim Transcript - Page - 20
The second uncertainty is the channel changes, the meanders. Again, that picture shows you how well-
how quickly the channels can change without the revetments and Phill Farrington already told you they
are over 70 years old. The Army Corp is not going to let you rebuilt them when they're out. You know
that in Thurston there are endangered species, critical habitat for the Spring Chinook on the McKenzie
River. You are not going to rebuilt those revetments when they go because they are 70 years now. They
are not going to last a whole lot longer. So, consider that. There's historic meanders. Historically, there's
~ ,always been braided channels. Again, I have handouts that show you that.
And the third uncertainty is the contribution of piping, paving, impervious surfaces, the loss of riparian
vegetation and the loss of permeable land. And that's directly what we're concerned with when we see all
the new paving and the new buildings and the new freeways and interchanges and roads and sidewalks
and everything brought up to City code every time you annex and say, yes, we're going to provide urban
surfaces, you're committing to more pavement and if you do that in the flood plain, you're going to
commit more flood waters, either back on the people who live in the areas that aren't yet annexed, or into
the riparian areas, so you need to consider those three uncertainties and when you're considering whether
the City would have legal liability for allowing further development. Thank you.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you. Next we have Mike Schmidt. Robert Vogel on deck.
.
24. Mike Schmid:
My name is Mike Schmid. I live at 17112 Hover Court in Lake Oswego Oregon. The firm I work for,
KPFF Consulting Engineers, has been retained by the Peace Health organization to provide Civil
Engineering services for the River Bend Master Plan project.
I'm here'tonight as a professional engineer to express my thoughts relative to your current flood plain
management polices. I've been involved with many jurisdictions as an engineering consultant for
approximately 30 years, the majority of jurisdictions within which I have worked have had a flood plain
ordinance similar to yours. From a technical perspective, I believe your policies provide an adequate and
appropriate level of flood protection. By definition, the 100 year flood has a I-percent chance of
occurring in any given year. From a benefit/cost perspective, I believe your flood plain policy provides an
adequate level of flood protection give the statistical chance of it occurring or being exceeded and the fact
that structures must be elevated a minimum of one foot above the 100 year flood elevation.
In summary, I would encourage you to hold true to your current flood plain ordinance. I believe it is
perfectly adequate for the City of Springfield. Thank you.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you. Next we have Robert Vogel. Buck Jones on deck.
25. Robert Vogel:
My name is Robert Vogel, 2159 Shady Lane, just south of Hayden Bridge. Just listening to the audience
comments concerning the flood plain, there seems to be two focuses and two issues and philosophies. One
is commerce. The other one is livability. And I'm speaking in favor oflivability and not at the sacrifice
of expanding commerce.
.
The issues that I feel will effect the livability are that with continued expansion of development is the
continued dramatic increase of population and traffic in the Gateway and surrounding areas. I've lived
there for about 8 years and it's somewhat akin to southern California. Not Sacramento, but something
.
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Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting - April 8, 2002
Verbatim Transcript - Page - 21
else. Beltline, even with the road expansion improvement have not been able to relieve the congestion and
commercial expansion that have evolved over the past several years.
The Gateway Mall appears to have surpassed Valley River in traffic density both day and night primarily
because of the theater people try to drive through there. Hayden Bridge and Pioneer Parkway, the City
Center exit off of 105, Q Street, and this area has had continued congestion. The traffic jams there
mornings, afternoons and primarily afternoon are somewhat akin to Eugene. In conclusion, I consider the
traffic and congestion problems associated with this development in the Gateway area is somewhat
symbolic of the (inaudible), an early warning mechanism to the environment going out of balance. Thank
you.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you. Next we have Buck Jones. Bob Cochran on deck.
26. Buck Jones:
I'm Buck Jones and I live at 6022 Thurston Road, right next to the famous wave pool which used to be
part of my property. My house was built in1890 - that's over 100 years old. And it's still standing for
one reason or the other. It did have, when I bought it, it had sandstone throughout for a foundation. I took
those things out, piece by piece, and put in cement and got some pretty good items to lift it up and put a
foundation all the way around it. Now, my property is on the same level as Levi Landing on 66th Street.
And the reason I'm talking about this - I came here from California - I bought lots in this town for $4,000
a piece in 1972, and I built houses all over town, the last being 71 sl and Aster and I put 13 new homes in
there and they're still standing. The fact that I was offered $40,000 per acre for my farm leads me to
believe that there's a lacking ofland around here to build houses on. And as I built houses, and I was a
Red Carpet Real Estate broker here for approximately 30 years, I don't want you to take the land away
until you're sure that it's in flood plain. I came here to a meeting in 1977, with one member of the City
Council and the Building Department and CH2M-Hill with their big-fluten drawings all over the wall and
everybody else in this city was over at the center in Eugene at a big meeting.
Myself, one real estate broker, one taxi cab driver and two ladies that said they had nothing else to do and
heard there was a meeting cameto the meeting. I'm really pleased to see all the people here and being
concerned. But I don't like to this "not in my backyard." My backyard is 64 acres, and I have put my
daughter back 3,000 feet off of Thurston Road, real close to Cedar Creek. I own the last stretch of Cedar
Creek before it goes into the McKenzie River. Yes, I've been back there when it was flooded. It covers
about two acres of my property in the middle. But if! thought it was going to flood, I sure wouldn't put
the most precious thing I own, my daughter, right on top of it. I thank you.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you very much. Next we have Bob Cochran. Judy Bonn on deck.
27. Bob Cochran:
I'm Bob Cochran. Mayor Leiken, I didn't come here to speak tonight, so I'm unprepared and probably if!
sat and listened a little bit longer, I probably wouldn't have come up here, but it appears to me we're
talking about two different things. We're talking about the Willamette and the McKenzie. There's a
whole different ballgame here. If you're looking at the flood plain level at the car lots over in Glenwood
where I've been about 50 years and I look at the line that's drawn right in the middle ofthe property. And
Steve Moe shared some pictures with me and I looked at them and tried to remember in '46 and '47 and
'48 and the floods before the dam, I'm speaking of the Willamette, and there was no water. And the very
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Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting - April 8, 2002
Verbatim Transcript - Page - 22
highest mark before the dam, right where this line comes through my property, and so of course speaking
for myself, that concerns me that that line would go through there. And if you look across the way to what
we, I guess we're Springfield now, but we used to say (inaudible) across the way, this property is 15 feet
lower and they do get water across there but really, I have empathy for people on the McKenzie River. I
feel that's a whole different ballgame.
The Willamette River, where we had the terrible floods in the '40's was taken care of by the dam. I'm
probably just making obvious statements probably and I probably wouldn't have come up in had sat
longer and listened to some of the eloquent speaking here tonight, but my concern, I guess, speaking for
myself, is for that flood plain line. It doesn't work. It cuts my property right in half. And when you take
200 feet off of the river side and you've got 500 feet there, you're losing half your property (inaudible),
and of course obviously that's my concern.
And it's good to see Dick Alexander. Alexander's Farmer Store. I didn't know he was here. He came all
the way from Washington to come down to speak. I came up here to correct him, because I thought the
big flood was in '46, but it was in '48 and '49. So thank you very much.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you. Next we have Judy Bonn.
.
28. Judy Bonn:
I'm Judy Bonn. I live at 987 North 66th Street in the Thurston area and I had really no intention of being
up here tonight either. But I've been listening to everybody talking and saying what they had to say and I
guess mostly I wanted to direct my first comment to you on the Council. I really don't pretend to even
understand half of what's in this analysis that you all have a part of, but I do - I do understand and I do
expect that all of you will read it and know exactly what's in it. A lot of time and effort was put into
putting this document together for your benefit - ours too. All the information that's in it has been there
and it is available. It's all been available and its something we would like you to pay, you know, attention
to.
Brenda Leavitt just got up a few minutes ago with a short video and I just have to make a comment. It
was a 2 Yz minute video and it showed the flooding on North 66th which is very current during the '96
flood, so that was something that probably everybody would have benefitted by seeing.
The other fact is that there was erroneous engineering that was used in development in our area and
through a negotiated settlement with the City of Springfield, it was agreed that this engineering would not
be used again for any other development without - any other development within the flood plain, the
Urban Growth Boundary, there would be no new projects without input from the Rural Thurston area.
They're talking about our area.
And for Mr. Jewitt, I really don't think the development can be granted on any parcel on erroneous
information, maps and existing policy. I think that anecdotal evidence is very specific and it's evident.
And I can't imagine how it can be ignored. They'd all like you to ignore it, but we know - we've lived it
- we've been there. We're the new kids on the block and we lived through one, we've been through one
flood in '96 and it was - it wasn't even anything that lasted for two days - it wasn't even hardly raining
enough to put the rain and the water - to put it on 6~ street in '96. So, I guess with that I will quit.
Thank you.
. Mayor Leiken:
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Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting - April 8, 2002
Verbatim Transcript - Page - 23
At this time, we've been able to receive all the cards for testimony tonight and I think before Council
decides to come back and make any comments, I - because we're all human, I think it's time to stretch a
little bit, so at this time I'd take about a five minute recess.
8:45 p.m. (Council takes a recess)
8:50 p.m. (Meeting Reconvened)
Mayor Leiken:
We'll reconvene the meeting and we did have one last person who wished to speak and I apologize for
missing this individual and so at this time I would ask that John Well come please come forward and state
your name and address for the record.
.
29. John Wellcome:
Thank you members of Council. I'm John Wellcome, my address is 38338 Kickbusch Lane. That is
north of the McKenzie River, about one mile down river from Hendricks Wayside Bridge. And as
Councilman Hatfield pointed out to me recently in a meeting, I didn't vote for you folks because I'm not
in the city limits. But I'm affected by what you do. By what I've heard tonight is don't rely on ad hoc
evidence, rely on scientific evidence. Well, I did that. 12 years ago, relying on scientific evidence, I
bought a lovely 5 acres of property. The scientific evidence was a FEMA map that said that that five acres
of property was not in the 100 year flood plain. In 1996, clutching that FEMA map in my hand, I waded
through chest deep water to get the tools out of the garage that was under construction. In 1998, clutching
that FEMA map in my hand - and '98 wasn't a big event - that was an El Nino year - in 1998, clutching
that FEMA map in my hand, I waded out to my garage. In 1999 - and that was not a big event - that was
La Nina year - clutching that FEMA map in my hand, I again waded out to my garage with the water just
below the floor of my house. And my only point is this, accept the invitation to rely on scientific
evidence, but insert, please one word: Rely on "reliable" scientific evidence.
You really need to re-study where the flood plain map is, because the FEMA map, as has been pointed out
by other people, is completely unreliable. And you need to know one other thing, for my sake, even
though I don't vote for you folks because they won't let me because I live in the county rather than the
city, when you stick a piece of riff-raff in the river, even ifit's a couple miles down river from where my
house is, it affects me and it affects my neighbors.
You want to know how much that river meandering can effect - when the new channel cut through by
Dell's property, the water level in front of my house, as that new channel cut through, dropped three feet-
can you believe that? Three feet. Throw a piece of riff-raff in that river and it affects all of us. Thank you
so much.
.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you. Well, I know that talking to fellow members of the Council tonight that they - I think all of us
- some of us want to definitely make comments and I do appreciate that. Once again, I just want to say
thank you all for taking time out to come here and it means a lot to all of us to listen to this testimony.
And my guess is there's not much on TV on Monday nights anyway. At least I don't watch TV on
Monday nights, except when football's on but - so - once again, I do appreciate all of you being here
tonight.
I know Council also expresses the same and at this time I'm going to open up the floor if you will, to
members of Council who want to address some comments made tonight and also maybe express some
other thoughts and views as well. So, Councilor Simmons.
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Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting - April 8, 2002
Verbatim Transcript - Page - 24
Councilor Simmons:
Last night the special on Shackleton was on the tube and it looks like I won't get to see what happened
after the boat sank but tonight you've heard comments from a lot of people. Mr. Wellcome's comment
about anecdotal evidence. I think it's clear that we have a long term development process, btu I think that
as we move into this portion ofthe 21 st century, we need to look not only at the scientific data but we need
to look - I'm not too sure whether the water marks on the side of the drain channel or on the vet clinic at
Glenwood is anecdotal.
Those are actual, observable elements of phenomenon that - I don't believe it's anecdotal. If somebody
says that here's the straw that's in my bedroom that flooded, that's not anecdotal, that's an actual real
physical observation. Is it reproducible, is it data? Ifthe gentleman from Seattle is correct, and the section
elevations are incorrect in the McKenzie, then we do have a fundamental problem that not only effects
Eagle Flight, but could effect Peace Health and other development along the river.
The reality is that (inaudible) is out there. There are homes and strictures in an area today that in the '50's
would have been flooded. I mean, literally flooded where the houses would have been blown off their
foundations. We've seen a tremendous impact.
I appreciate the Thurston Neighbors submittal of this report. And when I hear Dave talk about specific
process, procedures, he is correct. There are procedure elements that need to be used in development
scenarios. But when you find that new facts come into the issue, we are all neighbors, we are all members
of this community, whether we are within or without the city, within or without the Urban Growth
Boundaries, we are all there together.
And I think that we need to be very careful of how we impinge upon the flood way and the flood plain and
how we go about that as a city is a test of how we go about that as a community. If you go back and you
look, it's ironic that Davenport comes into the discussion when the floods occur along the Mississippi and
the Missouri River and total communities are devastated. We still have an opportunity in this area by the
people that are involved in both the engineering and land use planning and the agencies and our staff to
produce a future scenario that will minimize the impact upon life, safety, and the environment, that we can
do that collectively together.
I'm amazed that this many people came out tonight because normally when something comes up like this,
we can adopt a budget with three people or two people at that podium. And tonight, where we had 29 or
30 - they've made non-accusatory comments, they've made comments that are very productive, so I think
that we have a very good foundation to start to look at the future.
There are some legal problems that I won't want to speak for either Councils, in the terms of the process
and procedures about development, but we need to look, and I encourage both the Eagles Flight people
and Peace Health and others, we need to look at this issue constructively, and if the gentleman from
Seattle is correct, and we do have some elevation errors, they need to be addressed so that we don't have
problems in the future that will cost people their lives and the property that's there in those flood plain
boundaries. So, having said that, I think that we have a lot of ground to cover, and I really appreciate the
opportunity to listen to what you people have had to say. And I'm not too sure that we have any solutions,
but we've heard.
Mayor Leiken:oCouncilor Lundberg.
.
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Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting - April 8, 2002
Verbatim Transcript - Page - 25
Councilor Lundberg:
I also want to thank everyone for taking the time to come out and sit here through the last two hours.
Because it's obviously something that's very important to a lot of people. I want to - I guess, the notes
I've written have more to do with the issues are surrounding - that we have surrounding us are the
difference between our ordinances and our policies are in error, or perhaps it's the data - that we need to
have something different in the way of data. That our policies are not necessarily in error in terms of how
we deal with flood plain, but the flood plain itself may not be correct.
So - and we had a work session where we discuss what areas we would look at and I would just want to
say that I think - I took a tally of who spoke on which areas and I think that we need to have that look at
the whole length of the McKenzie because we talked about the confluence to 42nd Street, but I'm looking
at those who came tonight, and many of them don't represent that area along the McKenzie - that we need
to look at the whole length of the McKenzie, so I want to consider when we're doing that and what that
takes.
And I also agree with Steve. I think Steve's comment probably sums up where I'm at which is protecting
all the species that live on the river - is how do we do that so that we can all be compatible - we can be in
a protective mode and those of us that live along the river and are impacted by that also. I live just off of
Hayden Bridge and I always think that that dip that's in my street was meant to collect water at some point
ifthe river got high enough and I'm sure that's what it's there for, so anyway, that's really, I think part of
what I want to get clarified is, you know, it's our policies that need changing or we just need to update that
data so that when we apply our policies they are applied in a way that's actually reflective of conditions
that we can make good solid judgements about.
Mayor Leiken:
Councilor Hatfield.
Councilor Hatfield:
(passes).
Mayor Leiken:
Go ahead Councilor Fitch.
Councilor Fitch:
Lots of information tonight. Again, echoing, thank: you for coming out. It was spoken to by several
people - it's never easy, you have policies and procedures you expect people to develop by, you expect
that to happen in easy times. It's more difficult in tough times. Councilor Simmons eluded to a
possibility of something maybe not being right in some calculations was mentioned. We don't have that
information yet. To me, something presented on a backboard that was done during a 10-15 minute
analysis is not scientific.
I bring in my background as an educator and try and bring in some common sense to this in saying we
have some rules that we're developing by right now. That doesn't mean that someone can't bring in some
scientific information to change that, but I don't believe in changing the rules mid-stream without hardcore
information.
We have some photos here that need to be taken into consideration, we have some mapping that needs to
be taken into consideration. But do you change everything because there's a possibility of something
being wrong? We need to know it. I've always said we get so much pay up here for making these tough
.
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Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting - April 8, 2002
Verbatim Transcript - Page - 26
decisions, but if we don't use the same rules on the easy and the hard decisions, we're letting down the
total population. That I don't know what's going to happen, but those are my comments at the moment.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you councilor. Councilor Hatfield.
Councilor Hatfield:
I've got several comments. I also want to thank everybody for coming out tonight. This is an issue - and
I know many of you out there because you've been discussing this issue in one form or another now for
longer than I can remember. I had hair back when we started, and I didn't lose it as a result of that, thank
God, but anyway.
First, there are some issues that I want to point out. And one of them is that this is a pubic process, and
it's going to be a public process, because the city belongs to the citizens. That doesn't mean that we're
excluding the county residents, but yes we represent the city of Springfield and our interest is the city of
Springfield and the citizens that elect us. That's our primary responsibility. But the public process is one
where County residents and others who feel a need to weigh in can weigh in, so whatever happens in the
next steps will be a public process and the public will have notice of it and the Springfield News will try
and get information out and the interested parties list so you can stay abreast of what's going on. What
that is, I don't know because we have made no decisions yet.
I agree with Councilor Fitch, you know, we have a lot of information that has been tossed at us, but we
don't have the information put together in a way that constitutes change. We have a lot of - I personally
think we have a lot of reasons to be concerned because I am one who does take anecdotal evidence very
seriously.
After all, there has to be a reconciliation between scientific studies and reality. If somebody says that there
is no water, there cannot be water there, and there's water there, as I told my wife, water doesn't lie. She
said of course it does, it lies there. But it doesn't tell us an untruth and so there's a point where we need to
reconcile this data that we're getting. And it's conflicting data and from scientific - the community and I
personally am - we last week instructed staff to look at the firm - the flood insurance rate map information
because that might be a key if those cross sections are in fact wrong, then that explains a lot of
information. We don't know that yet.
The person from FEMA was very certain of that based on his professional experience, we want to double
check the data to make sure that we have good factual information. That doesn't mean the anecdotal
information isn't important - it's very important. It is the reality check that tells us whether the scientific
data is any good or not, very simply.
But there's a lot more going on. There's a county process that Commissioner Wheeldreyer has taken - has
basically been leading - having to do with the Gossler and hard revetments. The city has been part of that
process because it does effect East Thurston area. And I've been a part of that and will continue to be a
part of that and it's probably Mr. Wellcome's comments as well as Mr. Gossler's saying well the city
really isn't interested -,.- well not entirely - the city's interest is the city. The county's interest is the county.
And what we do to protect the urban area mayor may not protect county residents, okay? So while we
may, once we go through another process if you will, working with the Army Corps of Engineers and
others on the, you know, looking at the revetments and the impacts and those kinds of things, we're not
sure what's going to happen in those areas, so it's not that we don't have interest in our county areas, but
,0
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Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting - April 8, 2002
Verbatim Transcript - Page - 27
we do have a responsibility to urbanized areas.
But the one thing that I heard tonight that I think is critically important and I don't mean this in any way
except to be constructive, and that is development within the flood plain is not a city of Springfield issue
alone. It is a county issue. And the city of Springfield has an Urban Growth Boundary. That Urban
Growth Boundary is to be urbanized. That is to help protect the rural areas from development. And so
any fill or any impacts within the Urban Growth Boundary may have an impact on the flood plain and
may have an impact. But so does fill in the county. So does development in the county in the rural area.
And so Springfield cannot deal with this issue alone. It's an issue that we have to work with the county
because Springfield simply cannot do it alone. And so it's an issue that we're going to have to work with
the county in order to make sure that we can have prudent and responsible development.
Those of you who know me well know that I'm very pro-business and for me to even put the brakes on
economic development and those kinds ofthings takes - is not easy for me to do. And I'm not going to
do that. What we are going to do is look at our data, and as Councilor Lundberg said, look at, you know,
our codes and our policies, look at our data and find out if - and that's a big two letter word - if there's a
problem that needs to be addressed, and if we as a Council come to a decision that the data that we're
using or our codes and policies need to be updated, then we will go through another public process in
order to see to it that we can develop within Springfield in a reasonable and prudent way.
.
And to the extent that we're dealing with impacts on the county, it's an issue that we're going to have to
deal with the county. The county is going to have to be a partner. If the county is going to allow
tremendous amounts offill, sorry it's going to put just as much - sorry, I can't remember your name, but
it's going to put just as much risk on you as if it happens in the city. And any fill in the county doesn't
just - can't just be ignored. It's just as important as any fill that might happen within the city.
So, it's not going to be our sole responsibility to solve all ofthis area's problems. But I think I can speak
for the council that we have definitely taken this bull by the horns. We're ready to wrestle with it, not
because we want to stop development - I am absolutely opposed to the concept of NIMBY. We have an
Urban Growth Boundary because that area is going to be urbanized. If you don't want the field next door
developed, buy it.
And I'm very - and we have to think about the economic consequences of our actions because the quality
oflife begins with a good paying job and I don't think $30,000 a year cuts it either. We need a lot more
than that. But it takes business and business people and institutions to create those jobs and so we need to
balance that whole quality oflife equation and we can only do it with your help and we appreciate very
much your input. We may disagree, we may have different (end oftape l)...anyway, what you're saying
is important. Your opinions are respected and valued, and this hearing tonight is not window dressing,
because I think and I can speak for the council and probably even speak for the mayor in saying that we
are searching, very much searching for even a road map to try and get us to some answers.
Many of you talk about this being 30 years. Well, then it's probably 29 years too long. But we're not
going to get started last year, but we certainly can get this process started and move forward now. What
the next step will be, I don't know. We as a council will probably discuss this in the coming weeks, but
we do - we will be looking for some sort of a resolution on this - whether it's our city review or what the
county is doing with the revetments.
.
And it's not totally our decision. We have to deal with the Corps of Engineers, we have to deal with the
Federal Emergency Management Administration. We have to deal with I don't know how many other
.
.
.
f
Springfield City Council
Special Public Meeting - April 8, 2002
Verbatim Transcript - Page - 28
initia:ls. Probably more than I ever care to think about. But for the city residents, your city is aware ofthis
issues. And the county neighbors, we are aware of the situation and I think I can say that we're hopefully
doing our best to address them in a responsible fashion. Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Leiken:
Thank you councilors. Summed up very, very, very nicely. And again, on behalf of myself and the
council, thank you again for being here this evening. And for Mike, Joe, and the staff, I hope this is plenty
of information for our future work sessions on this subject.
And one thing I will agree wholeheartedly, I think with respect with a:ll members of council who spoke
tonight is that the information provided here is, I think, is a good opportunity for us to start - another start.
And more tools, as was mentioned before in a work session - more tools in our tool bag so that we can
continue to address what has been testified to here tonight by you folks and not only by you folks but
what's before us here tonight as far as the science is concerned.
I think most of us feel very greatly about our quality oflife. As a native Oregonian, many folks here
tonight native Oregonians, as we found out tonight, even some are from Sacramento, but you know what,
I think we all care about this community. And like I stated before when we opened this meeting, we are
all neighbors. We all live here. And those of us who are serving here tonight, we're not going to be
serving forever. We're going to be involved in making policy, but we're going to go back and live in the
community that we made policy for. We're not in this for a career. We're not career politicians. We are
here to serve our community and to hopefully serve you. And as the best as we possibly can. And with
that, again, thank you all very, very, very much. This is a great opportunity for us to continue to make
what I feel will be good policy for this community and for all of us to have a great community to live in.
With that, we're adjourned.
ADJOURNMENT
The Meeting was adjourned at 9:16 p.m.
Minutes Recorder - Kim Young
~'
Kim